Tape 005 Side A: “Johnny and Sam, Santa Fe July 1983” Side B: unlabeled, July 1983

Side A: Sam and Johnny talk about rugged individualism, luck and circumstances as factors of success and achievement. They try to define rugged and come to the conclusion that it is a false concept. They also briefly talk about the movie “The Right Stuff” and various things about it.

Side B: Sam and Johnny continue their discussion on rugged individualism, what the rugged individual would posses as far as material things, knowing whether you have ruggedness or not and having the “right stuff”. They also make a list of people throughout history who have had the “right stuff”. Sam also discusses filming The Right Stuff and how hard it was to film yet everyone worked as a team and how writing letters are a more personal way of communication.